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[Preliminary Review] AGM M4 GBB
#1
Guys,

I just picked up the AGM M4 GBB. Had a brief chance to play with it in the shop before buying it. Firstly this thing rocks! it's very solidly built, there's no wobble in the receiver (seems common in G&P GBB's), and the overall whole construction is very solid.

Putting in some top gas, the thing definitely has a strong kick. I didn't shoot with the G&P this time but from what I remember about the G&P back in Feb, I find this AGM kicking to be a little stronger. Admittedly this is subjective 'cos I'm comparing to a feel 5 months ago, and G&P is going to a revision of Gen 2.

Everything's mate out of metal except for the hopup chamber (like WA), and plastic nozzle. As reviewed by Poison123 in Arnies, it's the weakest link in the AGM and his broke after 1500 rounds. But keep in mind, this is an under USD$200 GBB! Anyhow I've picked up the RA-Tech's NPAS complete steel metal & hopup chamber/barrel. The rest of the components internally appear very sturdy.

When I get back "home" tonight, I'd play with it more and give more of a feedback. But in my opinion, this AGM (and I got it through a friend for just under USD$105), puts G&P and WA to shame as to why GBB rifles need to be so expensive. It puts ACM to a new level altogether too.
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#2
Kinda mixed feelings about that. It's great to hear that it performs beyond expectations, but it kinda hurts (my wallet) that I could have gotten a better deal if my fortunes changed slightly.

Anyway, we all know the reason why ACMs are cheap. They don't add R&D costs on top of the retail price.

Would you do us the favor of buying extra mags when you go back to Japan? Big Grin
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#3
I'll see if I can buy extra. I wasn't planning on buying anything extra for the moment 'cos of weight and I was told that ProWin mags are coming out soon and something to look out for - so I didn't want to invest heavily in Bomber mags (yet). FYI Bomber mags here are approx USD$58/JPY Y5,572
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#4
Yes please, I need mags too!
When are you coming back to Japan Q?
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#5
I'm coming back on Monday...again though, my problem is weight...so I can't guarantee.
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#6
I was referring to the AGM mags if they're available. But if there will be ProWin mags that's good news too.
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#7
Might take a while for ProWin... but when that happens we'll have VN style gas 20 rds mags Wink
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#8
Prowin's not out yet. AGM mags, none available!! Only what came with the GB.
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#9
(03-06-2009, 06:30 PM)Hazard Wrote: Anyway, we all know the reason why ACMs are cheap. They don't add R&D costs on top of the retail price.

Hate to burst your bubble here but 90% of airsoft products we are paying top dollar for are OEM'd from Chinese manufacturers.

G&G actually started off making the gearboxes for Tokyo Marui (Marui will deny this till hell freezes over) and King Arms, G&P and many many others all purchase OEM from other manufacturers in China. What has started to happen is alot of them have started selling directly to the market bypassing resellers.
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#10
(03-06-2009, 09:24 PM)FarEast Wrote:
(03-06-2009, 06:30 PM)Hazard Wrote: Anyway, we all know the reason why ACMs are cheap. They don't add R&D costs on top of the retail price.

Hate to burst your bubble here but 90% of airsoft products we are paying top dollar for are OEM'd from Chinese manufacturers.

G&G actually started off making the gearboxes for Tokyo Marui (Marui will deny this till hell freezes over) and King Arms, G&P and many many others all purchase OEM from other manufacturers in China. What has started to happen is alot of them have started selling directly to the market bypassing resellers.

Actually to further add, I've been informed that part of WA GBB is made by G&P too (yes the plastic parts too).
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#11
Hahahah so there we have it.... the reason why Japanese Airsoft guns are so expensive is because they have to pay Chinese companies royalties to do the R&D and Manufacturing for them Big Grin and the reason why Chinese Airsoft products are so cheap is because they all ready made thier money out of the royalties. Also WA is actually a Korean company registered in Japan.

Back on topic..... can you buy seperate receiver sets with trademarks for the AGM/WA/G&P GBB M4's?
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#12
(03-06-2009, 09:24 PM)FarEast Wrote:
(03-06-2009, 06:30 PM)Hazard Wrote: Anyway, we all know the reason why ACMs are cheap. They don't add R&D costs on top of the retail price.

Hate to burst your bubble here but 90% of airsoft products we are paying top dollar for are OEM'd from Chinese manufacturers.

G&G actually started off making the gearboxes for Tokyo Marui (Marui will deny this till hell freezes over) and King Arms, G&P and many many others all purchase OEM from other manufacturers in China. What has started to happen is alot of them have started selling directly to the market bypassing resellers.
If that's the case then I stand corrected. I did just take the word of other people from another forum because it seemed logical, so I don't know better. Blush But I do think that the guns "made in Japan" are at least just "assembled in Japan."

But if that's the case, then why do some ACM guns suffer from quality issues?
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#13
(04-06-2009, 07:11 AM)FarEast Wrote: Back on topic..... can you buy seperate receiver sets with trademarks for the AGM/WA/G&P GBB M4's?

Yes, and I'm after this as top priority and this Big Grin. Yeah Prime's ridiculously expensive.

Here's what I understand though & Hazard can correct me if I'm wrong, WA/G&P receivers are not 1:1 to RS. They're slightly smaller. Whereas Prime receivers are. Therefore when/if you buy the NPAS Bolt Complete, you have to buy it for the correct receiver. I bought the NPAS for Prime and it's something like 5mm longer than the stock AGM bolt set.

(04-06-2009, 08:21 AM)Hazard Wrote: But if that's the case, then why do some ACM guns suffer from quality issues?
From what I know, it's because there may not be -any- QA at all whereas the well known manufactureres have some (not gonna say all ;-)) kinda QA. That's why also most HK shops have a disclaimer that although the ACM they sell will be tested, they will not have any guarantee (check out UNCo for such examples of disclaimers.

e.g. an experience I personally had
Dytac released the VIS-1/2 upper last year. The 1st batch, the paint chipped/scratched, etc. Their VIS is made in a factory in China and that factory "cheated" Dytac by not using the right materials. Dytac didn't perform an initial QA so the bad batch got released. Complaints came, and Dytac then recalled their VIS's and got the factory to redo it properly (teflon coating).

Maybe FarEast has other experiences to further add.
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#14
(04-06-2009, 08:40 AM)Q Wrote: Here's what I understand though & Hazard can correct me if I'm wrong, WA/G&P receivers are not 1:1 to RS. They're slightly smaller. Whereas Prime receivers are. Therefore when/if you buy the NPAS Bolt Complete, you have to buy it for the correct receiver. I bought the NPAS for Prime and it's something like 5mm longer than the stock AGM bolt set.
From what I read that seems to be the case.
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#15
Q, yes i do.... STAR and ARES. Star OEM's from ARES and preforms a wide range of QA testing on the products before a batch is purchased and sold on the market. ARES has no real QA methods or if they do the foremen do not enforce it on the production line. Thus the huge amounts of complaints regarding the ARES range of Sniper rifles with bits falling off and breaking.

Although the STAR range have plastic gear boxes they run very well and my L85A2 has been going strong now for 4 years!

Also WOW 500 USD plus for a receiver.....might as well get the G&P hahahahaha Might just take mine to an engravers and have the KAC logos engraved on it for 5,000 Yen.
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