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Ycare's TM M4 EBB Upgrades
#1
Alright, I know there are several threads on the Tokyo Marui's EBB upgrade, but thought I should add my part up.

I went with a base of Tokyo Marui M4A1 SOCOM Recoil Shock. I chose that one since I wanted a front wiring and be able to change stocks. I have no will to change any internal, and will just be going LiPo instead NiMh battery. Aside of that, all the upgrade listed here at first will be external only!

Good: Awesome base system, full metal aside of the carrying handle, stock and hand guard.
Bad: Dislike original look, and requires special parts for upgrade. Output is ridiculously low, ranging from average of 0.55J with hopup to the max, to 0.76J without. Requires upgrade if any range at all is wanted.

[Image: tm-aeg-m4socom_1_mark.jpg]


First upgrade: King Arms G16 Standard Pistol Grip for M4, Dark Earth color.
Issues:
- Only 2 screws needed to screw the grip, due to EBB design. Would prefer 4 but it holds fine.
- Not base cover (butt plate) provided, you need to use TM's one, which is a tight fit, or in my case, an extra from a G&P I had.
- Even with the base cover, the end of the grip is not flat, there is a small cavity there.
Good: Great feel, nice texture, and DE color quite close to Magpul's. Definitely not crappy tan.

[Image: IMAG0685.jpg]


First (and a half) upgrade: Laylax M4 Trigger Guard for TM M16 and SOPMOD
Issues: A little bit of play, not completely still but won't noise around at a simple walk. A bit expensive...
Good: Very good quality, light, original. Wasn't fond of the design originally but growing to like it.

[Image: IMAG0692.jpg]


Second upgrade: Dytac 16 inch silver barrel.
Issues:
- Missing a hole for screw to hold the basic delta ring (thank you Dremel). Will only work fine with DD RIS type of hand guard, anything requiring a delta ring to hold will require you to drill a hole in the barrel.
- A bit of tight fit, somehow the TM barrel had a bit of play through a spring supposed to absorb shocks, the Dytac barrel is a little too tight to allow the spring to do anything.
- Completely fat, not really realisting looking much.
- The fake VLTOR gas block is made of crappy iron with already a bit of rust appearing on it.
- Barrel screw thread for flash hider and silencer is a bit of a tight fit, needs to be worked a couple of time to screw in all the way.
Good: Aside of all that, it works fine, nice and original look very matte silver/white appearance, no shininess whatsoever, seems like made from not too bad aluminum from what I could see when drilling through it.

[Image: IMAG0689.jpg]


Third upgrade: Madbull Daniel Defense 12 inch Omega Rail, color Flat Dark Earth.

Issues:
- Requires the delta ring to hold, thus I had to drill a whole in the Dytac barrel. Edit: Actually the delta ring from TM is absolutely not enough to hold firmly the Omega rail and it wiggles a lot. I had to get a new G&P delta ring for TM, which I could screw in properly and finally worked out well.
- Could not fit a generic 7.4 lipo stick in the main groove, not that it doesn't fit right in, but it pushes the barrel up or downward. Now ordered a twin type instead and pray this will fit on the sides of it.
- The TM fuse cover was too thick as well, had to remove the plastic cover and wrap it in black electric tape instead.
- Not finished installing it yet, but it's a bit of a pain to be honest.
- There is a small bar inside which prevents the use of the gas block and its dummy tube. Edit: I dremelled this off.
- Does not fit any kind of LiPo, even the twin types, not enough room.
- The picatinny rails are slightly larger than usual, it's really a tight fit for the Magpul AFG and MBUS. REALLY tight...
Good:
- Definitely original and aggressive look, good quality of aluminum, definitely, nice anodizing which still can scratch around the mounting points of the D-ring. Quite light though, and very nice trademarks there, aside of the "for Airsoft only" written in small somewhere.
- Color is... interesting to say the least. That not look like copper like its real steel counterpart, but more like a metallic dark brown, not even remotely close to any Dark Earth color I've seen before, definitely more brown than anything else. Some might like, some might not. At first I was disappointed but end up now putting this as a "good" point.

[Image: IMAG0686.jpg]

[Image: IMAG0690.jpg]


Forth upgrade: Stock sling attachment point

Issues:
- A bit complicated to install, requires to remove the entire buffer tube.
- Adds a bit of noise because of the wiggling of the ring around the attachment.
Good: Solid and exactly what I wanted, I often change shoulder when shooting depending on my position, and having the sling attach able to move from one side to the other flawlessly is a big plus.


Fifth upgrade: Magpul PTS ACS Stock

Issues: Tight fit, the locking mechanism does not close completely, probably because the holes in the buffer tube might not be deep enough.
Good: Easy to install, and tight fit, means no wiggle at all! Very nice look too!


Sixth upgrade: EBB Magazine adapter

Issues:
- The Magpul PMags M Version get in very easily, but there is a bit of wiggling possible, and rocking the mag on the sides back and forth three or four times will indeed loosen it. I should try some 100 miles tape to inside the mag well to help with that.
- The PMags older version are quite a tight fit and it requires quite a slap at the bottom to get it in, I might consider cutting a bit of the adapter for a better fit since I still use some of those
Good: It fits perfectly, has a nice little "snap" when it passed the O-ring no customization required unless I want to make my older PMags easier to get in.
Edit: a quick shot at the dremel to dig slightly two groves on each side of the adapter so that it sits a little deeper on the hopup and it's perfect for both older and recent pmags!


Here is is, all sorted out:

[Image: DSC_0172.jpg]

[Image: DSC_0174.jpg]

[Image: DSC_0173.jpg]
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#2
Hope you're an Arnie's member :-

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/in...p__2308380
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#3
(31-10-2011, 03:05 PM)Q Wrote: Hope you're an Arnie's member :-

http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/forums/in...p__2308380

Yup, thanks for that! I saw that on your thread on TKO too, but you have a different handguard than mine, you have a DD RIS II, while I have an Omega one, and I'm not fully sure even the twins will fit in. I was betting on the usual LiPo fitting in the main groove of the Omega rail, which is deeper than the RIS II, and it does fit, it just it too large though and touches the barrel.

Anyway, I ordered the twin battery, I'll update as it comes.
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#4
Note on magazine adaptor, there is a metal version out there that might look pretty solid, but I recommend avoiding it. It tends to chip the mags. The plastic versions are preferable.
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#5
Thanks Drifter, got the polymer version, I updated above too for information.

Also, unfortunately the Omega rail won't fit any LiPo at all, even twin types like Q suggested... It's really a shame since I was growing to like it a lot and liked its original look and nice length, I'm a little gutted here. I ordered a King Arms CASV-M in black, but I'm afraid it's not going to look good with the 16 inch silver barrel and won't be long enough. I'll see how it goes, but I might consider having the LiPo somehow outside the rail, hidden in something... what though?
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#6
(03-11-2011, 12:16 PM)Ycare Wrote: Thanks Drifter, got the polymer version, I updated above too for information.

Also, unfortunately the Omega rail won't fit any LiPo at all, even twin types like Q suggested... It's really a shame since I was growing to like it a lot and liked its original look and nice length, I'm a little gutted here. I ordered a King Arms CASV-M in black, but I'm afraid it's not going to look good with the 16 inch silver barrel and won't be long enough. I'll see how it goes, but I might consider having the LiPo somehow outside the rail, hidden in something... what though?

I think a fake PEQ would look cool, although it could introduce balance issues depending on placement. I'd put a PEQ as far forward as possible for look, but closer to the rear of the rail might be easier for wiring issues.
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#7
Yeah... I think I might do that, although to be honest I would have preferred not to...

Now I just finally clocked my AEG and I'm surprised to see the max output was 0.81J and lowest was 0,69J... Quite disappointing. I'm reversing to the previous barrel to see if it's due to that, but I'm doubting so. It's really low, I'm really disappointed, I thought latest TM were getting closer to actual limits...

Edit: Yup, tried again with old barrel, same result, average of 0.76J... and now I remember why I never bought Tokyo Marui since my G36C which was shooting at similar power...
Ahah, and with the hopup to the max, it shoots at 0.55J, it doesn't even puncture the cardboard box anymore. This is ridiculous. How can they sell such shitty output AEGs?! I'm really really disappointed there.
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#8
(03-11-2011, 01:11 PM)Ycare Wrote: Yeah... I think I might do that, although to be honest I would have preferred not to...

Now I just finally clocked my AEG and I'm surprised to see the max output was 0.81J and lowest was 0,69J... Quite disappointing. I'm reversing to the previous barrel to see if it's due to that, but I'm doubting so. It's really low, I'm really disappointed, I thought latest TM were getting closer to actual limits...

Edit: Yup, tried again with old barrel, same result, average of 0.76J... and now I remember why I never bought Tokyo Marui since my G36C which was shooting at similar power...
Ahah, and with the hopup to the max, it shoots at 0.55J, it doesn't even puncture the cardboard box anymore. This is ridiculous. How can they sell such shitty output AEGs?! I'm really really disappointed there.

That output seems strangely low, I've been getting around .8j from my RECCE consistently since I bought it. Might want to get someone to check the internals or something. Shouldn't be that much variance between the different M4 EBB guns, especially internally.
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#9
I checked redwolf and ehobby, those two say the output is between 280 and 270 fps, sounds like what I've been having... I'm really mad TM doesn't even try getting remotely close to the limit.
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#10
I have direct experience with 3 M4 EBB, and they all shot 91 m/s stock. You are getting weird numbers. The hole you drilled for the delta ring, and the screw used to hold it in place isn't making contact with the inner barrel is it? If you are using a longer outer barrel than inner and putting on a silencer, maybe there is some resistance created or maybe the BBs are making contact with the foam in the silencer? What type of BBs are you using?

Did you buy the M4 overseas as well?
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#11
(03-11-2011, 05:10 PM)GingaNinga Wrote: I have direct experience with 3 M4 EBB, and they all shot 91 m/s stock. You are getting weird numbers. The hole you drilled for the delta ring, and the screw used to hold it in place isn't making contact with the inner barrel is it? If you are using a longer outer barrel than inner and putting on a silencer, maybe there is some resistance created or maybe the BBs are making contact with the foam in the silencer? What type of BBs are you using?

Did you buy the M4 overseas as well?

Bought at Frontier in Akabane. And to answer you:
- I did not change the inner barrel and the screw there cannot touch the inner barrel, not long enough for it, and the delta ring would prevent the screw from going too far.
- I only changed the external barrel, and tried again with the stock one "just in case" although I knew it wouldn't have any effect.
- 91m/s (MPS, right?) equals roughly 0.83J, so not much higher than mine... I find it still pretty low for a stock TM, we're talking a margin of 0.15J. I had a consistent 0.81J at first but then it went a little varying after a few BBs. Lowest being 0.69J at one point.
- For the testing, I removed the silencer, shooting only with a classic flash hider, I tried with the stock barrel/flash hider too anyway.

So yeah... maybe the gun is a bit new, but from what you say Ginga, also Drifter confirming a 0.8J, then the seller website mentiong 270~280FPS, it all seems like I'm getting "normal" numbers, considering it was what TM intended it to be, which I still find low.

Well at least I know you guys were able to play fine with such outputs, so I'm guessing I should give it a try, but I'm probably not to expect much distance reach from it...
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#12
Well it has been a real pain figuring this out, the Omega rail was being very shaky because the delta ring used on the M4A1 Socom by TM was not stable enough to handle a floating handguard on it.

But finally, after a new G&P delta ring, the Omega rail is rock solid and I managed to make my battery fit in the PEQ box attached outside, the wire is not even visible since all black and hidden in the rail's groove. I'm still trying to get a lipo to fit in though since the VegaForce NiMh PEQ battery is a tight fit and a little heavy too. I grew really fond of the Omega rail and I'm really happy I can make it work, it looks awesome.

Also, I bought a Madbull 6.03 barrel which will replace the current one, hopefully boosting a little bit the FPS to something a little more worthy, while giving better accuracy.

I'll add pics tonight.
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#13
Bummer Ginga, I forgot U wanted to try my SURUS. Should have let you try that in the last game.
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#14
I have a video on my channel on how to replace the inner barrel if you need it Ycare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lgjvTDBgXc&hd=1
The only thing you will have to watch out for is the wiring to the front as it can be a pain to get back into position after you pull it apart.

The folks at Echigoya suggested the G&P delta to me as well when I was swapping the front end of my SOPMOD. Glad to hear you got that sorted.
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#15
Alright, it's still missing:
- Inner barrel swap
- RS Magpul MBUS sights (the front one is a cheap copy I just tried)
- Some Magpul XT Panels and ladder to come complement here and there.
- An RS Harris Bipod with a quick detach

[Image: IMAG0782.jpg]

[Image: IMAG0780.jpg]

The holosight is a Hurricane XPS3 I got brand new at Hammer Model in Taipei, dirt cheap since made locally in Taiwan! Same for the Madbul DD RIS rail I got for another of my AEG (not pictured here). It's funny, they have two prices on the package there, the one you see online everywhere, and one 20% less marked for local sale only. ^^v
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