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TM G36C triple M (MadMaxMod)
#31
If anyone is interested, this can be helpful in case some one would like to customize a G36C:

I assembled the whole thing yesterday a did some testing.
I took off the custom spring that was installed in it, as it was too powerful to enable me to do any other modifications (barrel).
It used to shoot at 96mps with just a custom spring and a weird piston head.

Here is what I did so far:

- TM G36C
- 300mm 6.04 inner barrel
- Prometheus cylinder
- Prometheus Piston Head
- H-Nub
- Prometheus Spring M90

It shoots at a very consistent 85mps with 0.20 BBs and the sound is sort of nicer than before (nice smooth electric sound).
This makes it a perfect Indoor weapon I guess, but I would like to use as a backup outdoor one.

I will test it tonight again with a 363mm tight bore, and post the results.

(If you have any suggestions, please do not hesitate!)
"Warning! - NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night."
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#32
For whoever it may interest, the 363mm Prometheus 6.03 was totally pointless.
It actually lowered the power to 82mps.

I guess too long is too long and 300mm is optimum for the G36C.
(I might cut my old spring and put it back in actually to get something along the 95mps).
"Warning! - NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night."
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#33
Please read posts in your own thread :-

http://www.tkoverkill.com/showthread.php...9#pid12569

Can you elaborate what Prometheus Cylinder you're using? Is it for the 363mm? If not that could be your reason why.
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#34
Oh! Yeah, you're right Q!
I am sorry, if this sounds noobish to you.. but I am just trying to get familiar with all these customization stuff. We all got to learn the basics someday. ;o)

The Cylinder supports 245 ~ 300mm barrels.

Do you think it will make a major difference?
What would you recommend me to do then to power it up a bit (I'd like to get it to something like 95mps)?

Option 1: Keep the 300mm cylinder and 300mm barrel, and change the spring?
Option 2: Keep the current spring (Prometheus M90), upgrade the cylinder and change the barrel?
Option 3: Any other suggestion?
"Warning! - NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night."
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#35
A) LOOKS

Hmm...I'd say "anything" (practical) is possible (i.e. I can get a 247mm/300mm/363mm/420mm/509mm at 98m/s - I'm thinking if I have any other guns that's outside of that range). So forget about how to get your G36 to reach that speed. Probably I should ask you :-

1) what kind of look do you want? G36C or G36K?
2) how much of an idealist are you? (i.e. are you fine with a short inner barrel with a long outer barrel, or are you in belief that that the inner barrel must match the length of the outer barrel)?

Once you've decided on that, then it'll help you choose the 300mm vs 363mm (or whatever length).

B) AIR RELATED COMPONENTS TO MATCH THE LOOKS

After you've decided on the length then choose the cylinder to match the barrel length. To answer your question what is really happening inside the mechbox.

* a Cylinder for 245-300mm is ported accordingly. Therefore at the start of the piston forward motion, most air is vented through the port rather than compressed behind the BB. If you have a mismatch most of your air is wasted and "little" volume of air is left to compress to propel the BB. Just think of it as how much air is required to blow a BB through a short vs long straw. So that's why matching is important.

* I hear (some of you) ask, why not just have non-ported cylinders and that will match any barrel length? 'cos for non-ported, starts compressing air the minute the piston moves forward. There's no where to leak. Once compression starts, BB starts to move. The BB would have left the barrel way way way before the piston actually hits the cylinder head. Why is this relevant? It's because the piston hasn't reached maximum speed by the time the BB has been propelled. i.e. wasted energy.

* If you read on other forums there's also talk that mismatching cylinder to ultra long barrels has a concern for "suck back" thereby slowing the BB. To be honest, I think that's poppycock and some of the other long term airsofters are also in agreement. Realistically speaking, there is no -perfect- match (i.e. where the piston hits the cylinder head and at that exact same time, the BB leaves the inner barrel). All we can aim for is optimal whereby we have the piston at the max speed when the BB leaves the inner barrel.

* Another thing you'd read in the forums is too much air (mismatching non-ported barrel with short barrel), could cause bad groupings. There may be a little truth to this thereby even just after the BB leaves the inner barrel, there's still compressed air in the inner barrel pushing behind the BB. If you have a funky compensator/FH, it could cause turbulence which may throw your BB off a little (i.e. resulting in bad groupings).

3) POWER TO COMPRESS THAT AIR

You say you have a Prometheus M90 spring. That can attain your 95m/s but only if you have everything perfect (whereby everything is longer barrel, matching cylinder, well sealed and greased cylinder head, no-leak on nozzle, and no leak on nozzle to bucking, and bucking itself no leak whilst in the inner barrel).

The method I showed YCare before was to get a stronger spring, and cut it down to the speed that you like. But this is also -very- tedious as it means opening/closing your mechbox several times. But that's how you'll get as close to the legal limit without exceeding it. If you cut, I'd personally say cut in 1/2 circle increments and after each cut, try to flatten as much as much possible.

I'm too tired to talk about torque/speed gears/motor/lipos for the moment Big Grin. I'll wait till you have more questions first.
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#36
Wow. Q. That was pretty well done. I had no idea that having different cylinder made that much of a difference. I learned something new!Smile
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#37
Thanks a lot for that reply Q!
Very instructive, indeed.

Quote:1) what kind of look do you want? G36C or G36K?

G36C, but I don't mind a longer barrel.

Quote:2) how much of an idealist are you? (i.e. are you fine with a short inner barrel with a long outer barrel, or are you in belief that that the inner barrel must match the length of the outer barrel)?

No, I don't really mind if the two don't match in length.
I don't even mind going the Ginga route, and hide/cover the exposed part of inner barrel with a silencer.

(I like how the G36C looks with a silencer anyway, so I am planning to use one anyway).

I still like my gun to look good though, but I am ok to give up on some aesthetics for performance.

Quote:...it means opening/closing your mechbox several times.

I would prefer not to have to do that...
(Opening it it ok, but closing it after putting all the parts back together is a pain and requires a lot of anger management from my end...)

EDIT
Here go my questions then:

- I guess the stock TM cylinder is a generic one compatible with any barrel length? is that correct?
- What are the advantages / weaknesses of a "stronger spring" mod compared to a "longer and tighter barrel" one?
- Is there anything else in the gear box I need or should replace?
- Currently, it's a standard hop unit with a H-nub. Is the TM stock Hop good enough or should I look to replace the Hop unit as well?

My budget for this gun is not unlimited of course, but I don't mind investing a couple of mans more if I can get to be close to the "ultimate G36C legal in Japan". (^^)v

Thanks for the help guys! much appreciated!
"Warning! - NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night."
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#38
so far, it looks like this:

[Image: nec0492.jpg]

VERY satisfied with the aesthetics!
"Warning! - NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night."
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#39
Very nice indeed, good job!
Now a paint job maybe? Big Grin
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#40
(26-11-2010, 04:02 PM)madmax Wrote: No, I don't really mind if the two don't match in length.
I don't even mind going the Ginga route, and hide/cover the exposed part of inner barrel with a silencer.

(I like how the G36C looks with a silencer anyway, so I am planning to use one anyway).

I still like my gun to look good though, but I am ok to give up on some aesthetics for performance.

Cool. Historically (I can't remember if this was a discussion between Anarchy any myself or something we both read on the net, that whether an "inner barrel in a suppressor" design would affect groupings. Basically the same concept as funky compensator/FH mentioned previously, but in this case depending on the type or consistency of the foam used in the airsoft suppressors. At least for my P90 sniper build of "an inner barrel in a suppressor", I didn't see impact to groupings. Anyhow, this is just something I thought I should mention in case you you do your build and see something weird in your groupings - just food for thought.

madmax Wrote:Here go my questions then:

- I guess the stock TM cylinder is a generic one compatible with any barrel length? is that correct?
- What are the advantages / weaknesses of a "stronger spring" mod compared to a "longer and tighter barrel" one?
- Is there anything else in the gear box I need or should replace?
- Currently, it's a standard hop unit with a H-nub. Is the TM stock Hop good enough or should I look to replace the Hop unit as well?

My budget for this gun is not unlimited of course, but I don't mind investing a couple of mans more if I can get to be close to the "ultimate G36C legal in Japan". (^^)v

Thanks for the help guys! much appreciated!

1) Stock TM usually is very generic. At least in the TM's I've bought before, their port is always the same not matching the cylinder.

2) Tighter barrel although gives you increased FPS, it's not going to increase that much. Same with so called larger bore nozzles, etc. Those things are probably more minor increments to FPS vs spring strength.

3) I'm gonna guess those who know me will laugh at me for the next comment but here it goes: Upgrade -incrementally-. Decide your goals, then determine what you need to upgrade. One particular upgrade though I'd recommend for AEGs is put in a FET.

4) hop unit I gather you mean the bucking. Keep it as it is for the moment. Especially if you're using the H-Hop. I'm sure the Air-borne guys have told you that if you use the H-Hop, then use a standard TM bucking. If you use the FF kurage bucking, then use a standard TM nub (maybe that advice came before the FF square nub).

You can spend a lot on a gun. The most I've spent on modding a single gun was close to the range of Y300,000.


Edit:

In trying to search about the turbulent excess air affecting BB groupings, I came across this which was quite interesting :-

http://edgicustom-usa.com/custom_work.php

http://www.airsoftohio.com/forums/showth...hp?t=24125
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#41
Interesting links Q, thanks for that.

I always try to run my inner barrels as long into the silencer/compressor as possible so that the BB is exiting as close to the mouth as possible. I should look into cylinder matching, but I hate opening mech boxes...always seems that trying to "fix" one thing breaks another Smile

What do you think of the ported barrel idea?
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#42
I've bee reading on ASM & a little on Arnies. The results are promising. But no further confirmation of whether it actually happens as proposed. Why brass material tho!? They could have used a different material.

I may be tempted to buy one just to try.
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#43
Tested the gun on saturday outdoors at Desert Union.

It shoots fantastic so far to be honest!
I took me some time to find the right hop setting but once that was done, for accuracy, precision and even rang in some cases I could out-shoot easily a lot of other guns shooting 92~95 mps which had only spring, battery and motor mods with a gun that shoots at 83~84.

I can really feel the difference of the H-nub and the longer barrel... Like in Full auto, my BBs follow each other in a straight line and "fly" straight on a longer distance, minimizing the "sinusoid" effect.

I felt I was lacking power though. I guess I will start by putting in a stronger spring to reach 95mps and see how it goes on Sunday.

Thanks for your precisions Q, but could please explain what you mean by "Grouping"?

Also, what if an FET? ...field-effect transistor?
(In this case, how is that applicable to airsoft and what would it do to the gun? ^^ )
"Warning! - NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night."
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#44
Grouping

[Image: bdaytarget.jpg]

FET
[courtesy of http://www.awsairsoft.com]
- # Eliminates damaging electrical arcing of the trigger switch contacts.
- # Lower resistance compared to mechanical switching, increasing motor current.
[Q's addons]
- Better trigger response

Try out my ACR when we meet on Sunday. Show you what I mean by trigger response. But mine's a computerised FET so it's some what more sophisticated than a std FET - however enough to give you an idea.
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#45
ahh man, i love going semi-auto on guns with mosfets inside... really miss my M16A4...
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